Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in Prevention


Allison M. Smith

Audio file

Allison, Smith, Ph.D., Assistant Commissioner for Student Health and Wellness at the Louisiana Board of Regents, is this month's guest on Prevention Profiles: Take Five. During the interview, Dr. Smith discusses a significant experience she had during an internship; the importance of cultural competence and cultural humility across all five steps of the Strategic Prevention Framework; approaching diversity, equity, and inclusion in the prevention space for students and staff; ways in which diversity, equity, and inclusion can be increased for new professionals, and more!

Lucey: Hi, everyone, this is Rich Lucey, Senior Prevention Program Manager in the Drug Enforcement Administration's Community Outreach and Prevention Support Section. And welcome to this episode of Prevention Profiles Take Five. Excited to have a repeat guest on this episode of the podcast, Dr. Allison Smith from Louisiana. She's been on about a year ago, and we're going to talk about a very different topic than the last time we met. So let me tell you a little bit about Dr. Smith.

Dr. Allison Smith serves as the Assistant Commissioner for Student Health and Wellness for the Louisiana Board of Regents. In this role she facilitates the Louisiana Higher Education Coalition, oversees statewide core survey administration, provides professional development training for higher education staff and stakeholders, facilitates campus community partnerships and renders technical assistance around the issue of substance use prevention in Louisiana's collegiate communities.

Additionally, Dr. Smith also focuses on broader campus safety issues such as hazing prevention, increasing access to mental health resources and policy matters related to the implementation of Title IX and power-based violence statutes. 

Dr. Smith is a native of Baton Rouge. She received a bachelor's degree in psychology from Southern University in 2009, a master's degree in public administration from Louisiana State University in May 2011, followed by a doctoral degree in educational leadership, research and counseling with a specialization in higher education administration in 2016.

With that, Allison, welcome to the podcast.

Smith: Thanks, Rich. Thanks for having me back. I'm always excited to join you with anything you have going on.

Lucey: Yeah, absolutely. And the topic we're going to talk about today, it should always be in somebody's mind in the space that we're in. But I think since 2020 it's been in a lot of people's minds. I'm talking about cultural competence, cultural humility, diversity, equity and inclusion. So really excited to have this conversation with you, Allison, and I'm going to start right in with our first question.

You and I have actually presented at a couple of conferences within the last month or so, and this topic was a pretty significant part of the things that we talked about. And it was just a couple of weeks ago at the Higher Education Center's national meeting we were talking about workforce issues on a keynote panel, and you mentioned how you got your start in this field through an internship with the National Association for Equal Opportunity in Higher Education.

What was significant about that experience for you?

Smith: For me what was life changing was that it was a paid internship in D.C. with the federal agency. And in the field of higher education throughout most student's higher education during the few, there are few opportunities for paid internships, especially in D.C. when you're talking about working in governmental agencies or relations, working on Capitol Hill, which that means that students only, students who can take unpaid internships are those that are financially able to take unpaid internships.

So for me had I not had funding that covered, that reimbursed my flight, that paid me every two weeks while I was there and helped me find housing, affordable housing at American University that summer, there is no way that I would've been able to take that internship, get access to that network of people that I met there, yourself included, and meet and have opportunities and be introduced to the field of prevention higher ed because that internship was my first introduction to SAMHSA, CSAP.

I've told the story many times that I had to have [inaudible] who called me to offer me the internship, I had to have her on hold while I Googled to see if this was a real agency because I had never heard of CSAP, had never considered it. And that was my first introduction into prevention, and it was a career I'd never considered until that particular internship.

Lucey: And that was where I first met you and quite not a huge number of years ago but a few, and I've been able to watch you progress in your professional career which has been great.

I wanted to ask you a follow-up question because you mentioned this was at SAMHSA, the Substance Abuse Mental Health Services Administration in CSAP, Center for Substance Abuse Prevention. Listeners, regular listeners to this podcast know that that's where I worked for eight years or so before I came to DEA in 2016. Was that your first introduction or real in depth exposure to the topic of prevention and substance misuse?

Smith: Yes and no. So the yes answer is; I'll start with my no. Let me start with my no answer first. No.

I had taken, in my class in undergraduate, I went to Southern University. In my psychology classes we would do things like the core alcohol and drug survey. We would have HIV education, prevention, substance use prevention from one of our professors who was the Chair of the psychology department at the time, Dr. Muriel Harrison. And the whole psychology department, they were very invested in grants from SAMHSA for HBCUs, minority students as far as the prevention world, whether STDs, HIV, substance use. And that was my first experience with it as a student so I was a little familiar, like, oh, it's really just taking surveys and they come and they do the demonstrations in the class.

That was all the exposure I had on the student side. The internship was the first time I ever thought this was something that I could do. That was my first ever, oh, there's actually a career. People actually get paid to do this. Because when I applied for the internship with NAFEO, the National Association for Equal Opportunity in Higher Education, the way it works is you apply to a senior agency and they send your application out to multiple federal agencies. 

So I didn't necessarily even apply to CSAP. I just sent it, submitted it to this internship program. And so I don't know if I had not randomly been assigned to CSAP, would I be in that field? And it was there I was able to like, I can see myself doing this.

I got an opportunity, an amazing opportunity to work with Dana White who was there at the time, also who worked with some of the HIV AIDS projects, going to Druid Heights, some of the amazing community work, seeing what prevention looked like in a multitude of aspects.

And then thinking, oh, there's a space for higher ed. There's somewhere I can grow into this. And so that was my first experience with it as a career option.

Lucey: And it probably gave you a very different perspective obviously working from within a government agency.

Was it your first exposure to the Strategic Prevention Framework or did you know anything about that before you got to your internship?

Smith: No, that is the nice flower that I came up as working at CSAP.

I had never seen it before. And one thing that happened by me being at that internship, part of my class that summer which required we do an internship program, we had to submit assignments based on how your internship was going. And as I was submitting assignments, my professor sent me a job announcement for a graduate internship.

Back on campus she was like, oh, I see your interest is in this kind of work. You seem to be really enjoying it. She was reading my assignments. She said, Here's an opportunity that you may be interested in. And it ended up being the office where I'm currently still in my office.

I started as a graduate assistant. But being able to make the connection that there's a space in higher ed to kind of move over into this. And so coming into our office which is funded by Louisiana Department of Health, I see the Strategic Prevention Framework flower all the time now. And it is ingrained. It's in my memory. If I never see it again, I probably could describe it to anyone.

Lucey: Although I mean we do know from our Prevention with Purpose Strategic Planning Guide you do like the other graphic that's then developed around this.

Smith: [Talking over each other] Oh, it is amazing.

Lucey: So it really is the segue to my second question for you around the Strategic Prevention Framework which as we know it lists cultural competence as one of its two underlying foundations with of course sustainability being the other foundation.

How important is the concept of cultural competence? And I'm going to go a step further and say cultural humility because we introduced that in the Prevention with Purpose Strategic Planning Guide. How important are those concepts across each of the Strategic Prevention Framework's five steps?

Smith: I think they're critical, and I think if we want to -- I think they're a key part of the strategic part of the Strategic Prevention Framework. I don't think that it's wise or kind to build something for people and to say here you go. When I check in with them to see how it impacts them, their ideas for how to shape it, how to deliver it, how they're able to access it. And so sometimes I think we're all really smart people, but we just don't know everything about everything. We just literally don't have the capacity to.

And it's not; and the piece for me that I don't understand why we don't practice more cultural competence, cultural humility is that we're all tired.

We live in a world; we're still like figuring out the pandemic thing and we're all still tired pretty much, especially in the last two years.

And if you could bring in, if you could lighten your load by bringing in literally an expert on the topic that who's typically more than willing, more than eager to help, why would we not do that?

Besides the moral and the kind thing, just to work at the thing, why would you not want to lighten your own load to help achieve your own goals?

Lucey: So one of the things I picked up on what you said, so I love the fact that you said that it really is a key part of the strategic part of the Strategic Prevention Framework. I mean it is about strategy. We need to be, the words I've used before, intentional and purposeful. I like how you've anchored cultural competence, cultural humility in the strategy part of the framework. 

The other thing I wanted to mention, yeah, I was just going to. I mean I think they're connected. You know, you talked about, you know, it's kind and such. But we know that people support what they help to create. And it's not me coming in with a program off the shelf or a cookie-cutter approach and just say here you go. Do this.

Smith: Yes, you're more likely to get buy in. And even if we're not looking at the cultural competence or cultural humility piece, we see that in coalition work period. People help support what they help build. So why would these two concepts be any different from all the years of prevention science, capacity building, community building that we've seen work? Why would we not leverage those now as we're doing things to help better the health and wellness of all of our student populations?

Lucey: So I mean full disclosure, I've known and worked with the Strategic Prevention Framework for the better part of the 30 years I've been in this field. But the concept of cultural humility which has probably been around a while, but even though we only gave a couple or three sentences to it in the Prevention with Purpose guide, I think that was a very good step. Has the issue of cultural humility, that concept, has that been around as part of being culturally competent and we just haven't called it out or such? What's been your perspective on that?

Smith: I would think so. I think we've just as far as like research, lexicon in terminology, we've just named it. But I think, I know more so, I can speak for like more so communities of colors, we've kind of always seen that cultural humility was included in cultural competence. If you want to be competent, there are some things you just don't know about other cultures that you're not a part of. So how can you be the expert on something you're not a part of? That there is a huge value to those lived experiences that no amount of reading will provide you.

Lucey: One hundred percent. And for our listeners, just a quick, the very quick definition of cultural humility that we're talking about that we discuss in the Strategic Planning Guide is that notion of that self-reflection, that individual, not just individuals but organizations, that self-reflection that needs to be done to take a look at, you know, inherent biases and discriminations that we may have inherently in us that we need to kind of; it's that looking in the mirror, right, and basically acknowledging them and working on them.

And it's a continual process, right? I think it's like, not like the, not unlike the SPF. It's not the five steps and you're done. It's that circular so it's something you're constantly doing. Is that correct?

Smith: Absolutely, because I think one of the things I'm starting to think about more and not just in terms of racial, ethnic, gender, those kinds of areas. Our field as it grows older, not even just in higher ed, but we're going to have to look at, we're going to have to practice more cultural humility when it comes to generational changes. When you have Gen "Z", Gen "I" students, the same tactics that work, they won't work necessarily with some of the younger generations. So not even, when we bring in new ideas and new students, allowing them to tell us the ways that are better able to connect with them.

So yes, it's us doing the process. It's us using the prevention science but allowing them to tell us what way to present it to them and their peers so that it makes sense, that it registers and it helps shape their behaviors.

Lucey: So I'll move on to the third question which gets more diversity, equity and inclusion, which I know has been around for as long as I've worked in prevention. We know this is a piece of the prevention piece, and yet it seems like it's really come to the forefront since 2020, right? The panels that you and I have been in we've talked about this, that the reckoning in our country with civil unrest due to racial injustices and such, that diversity, equity and inclusion really came to the forefront.

So you frequently mention a dual approach to diversity, equity and inclusion in the college prevention space on both the student side and the staff side. So can you talk a little bit, elaborate on what you mean by that?

Smith: Sure. So as our colleges are ramping up their DEI efforts, specifically in recruitment for students, whatever their majority population is, most of our campuses are trying to diversify those students. So we have colleges in Louisiana for example, they've seen record numbers of African-American students, record numbers of Latinx students year after year building upon the success that they've had in other years. And so as they're building upon that, yes, we're doing a great job now bringing those students in, reducing barriers to access, bringing equity in our policies that help get students of color in the door, but are we building staff, diverse staff to serve those students? Particularly when it comes to the substance use prevention, the mental health side, knowing that students are more likely to connect, especially on the initial outreach with counselors of color.

When we look at our campus counseling centers, that's not necessarily what we see. When we see health and wellness promotion, one being able to make sure that we're being diverse and reflective of our student population, our state population, our national populations, even in the way that we hire. So it's not just going, reach out, recruit all these diverse students and then have no one there to serve them when they get there. And part of that, Dr. Shawnte Elbert makes a really great point when she talks about the best way to recruit diverse faculty and staff is to retain the diverse faculty and staff that you have.

So being sure that you're meeting the needs of the diverse staff and faculty that you have, so not just bringing all these people of color in the door, students and staff, and then not having an resources there to support them. And even in my own doctoral research, I talk about that which is on retaining black women administrators in higher education at predominantly white institutions who do not do diversity work. Because a lot of the literature tells us typically when we see black women administrators at predominantly white institutions, they typically work in diversity, equity, inclusion, some type of gender space or multicultural ethnic, some type of office similar to that.

But I wanted to specifically focus on women, black women who did not work in those spaces. So how do campuses retain those? And one of the things that came out was that even if a campus does not have the on campus resources to support their staff of color that they're bringing in, there is such a thing as community orientation, being sure you plug them into the right people in those groups that share similar lived experiences that can point them to the right direction.

If I'm a white colleague, I may not be able to answer all of your questions. I may not be able to answer where the beauty supply store is for you. But what I can do is I can connect you to whatever affinity groups we have on campus, whatever black faculty/staff caucuses we have on campus or my colleagues of color who may be able to better assist you. I don't always have to have the answer, but I can work to help connect you with someone else who does.

Lucey: I'm putting you in a spot to maybe relay the story from your memory, but I loved the story that you told a couple of weeks ago on the panel of the woman who was hired. I think she was in Boston.

Smith: Yes. She was hired at Johns Hopkins. So there was a tweet from Kizzy Corbett. And if you're not familiar with her name, I will tell you her full name is Dr. Kizzmekia Corbett. She is working at Johns Hopkins University now. But she was a researcher, one of the leading researchers on developing the Moderna MRA vaccine for COVID-19. And she was recruited to come work at Johns Hopkins.

And one of the things she tweeted about which is like, I know it may sound crazy but put in your, if you're a black woman in academia, she's a faculty member there. She was saying put in there with someone to help you find your hair. It was a joking matter but she was serious. She talked about the hard time she was having getting socially adjusted to the space she was in. So if her hair is that important for how she looks at; and there are tons of research on black women and their hair, how that it impacts how they show they connect to a community. That was one of the places she was having a very hard time.

We have one of the leading researchers in our country who was having a hard time connecting to a university community because they do not see themselves as being able to access community services. That's how deep their problem goes.

But for us in Louisiana, we just passed the CROWN Act, the Creating a Respectful and Open World for Natural Hair that was sponsored by Dove. We just passed in Louisiana so that there's not discrimination based on natural hairstyles for black men and women in our state. We just passed it in 2022 saying that we're not going to discriminate based on hair.

And so I always followed that legislation as it's moving through nationally in different states because I was a black a woman who only wore my hair straight to work for years until I was in the midst of working on my dissertation. And then I came to this reckoning, that self-reflection piece, that I don't want to do this. I don't want to have to be forced to show up in a way that I feel like fits a mold. I want to be able to bring my whole self to work so that I can be joyous, confident and being able to best serve the students of the state of Louisiana that I can.

Lucey: Again, I love the analogies and I love the stories, and a couple of themes or words that I continue to hear when you talk about these things is the sense of community and being true to yourself. They're two sides of the same coin. One has to do with the individual, being true to yourself. 

But also there's the larger community piece in feeling a sense of truly fitting in. I guess you're not going to do that if it's not reflective of your community. Is that correct?

Smith: Yes, and so I have several colleagues that are black women that work at predominantly white institutions that work in the health, wellness, ALD prevention type space, and they know that when they apply to their colleges that they're predominantly white institutions. So they do not expect there to be an overwhelming majority of people of color there. They know that.

And what always makes -- they're like, I know I won't get that at work so I'll just try to find ways to plug into my local community, finding places that I can do community and do service with, whether that's Greek affiliate chapters, whether that's local organizations, national organizations, finding some way to connect in the community knowing that a lot of those opportunities are lacking on the campus side.

Lucey: And we know in prevention, to bring it back to the work that we do and students and message development and such, when we talk about prevention just generally with all the different populations that we work with, message testing, message development, it needs to generate from whatever population you're targeting. And I always try to get away from that word, but it's the word we use all the time.

But how many times have we heard in our field students or whatever the population is saying I don't see myself. I don't see me in the posters or the; now I'm really dating myself, right? When we used to do a lot of posters. But whether it's social media posts or whatever the materials are. So that really is important for students to see themselves.

Smith: Absolutely. So one of our HBCUs here, Dillard University, when as campuses were all scrambling to do messaging around COVID, everyone was scrambling. They came up with; they did an ad campaign with their mascot, and it was hashtag Wipe Out Rona because that was the nickname, Rona, that a lot of African-American communities, Black Twitter. And their local student body nicknamed COVID Coronavirus, they named it Rona.

So their messaging was #WipeOutRona. It's not the same thing that you would probably see at LSU, which is our way, but that's not the same messaging that you would see.

It's not the same messaging you would see at Louisiana Tech. It's not the same messaging that you would see at some of our other institutions because those students and that staff there took ownership of that community.

That's what came out of that particular community. And being sure that they wanted to make sure that their students were reflective in the messaging that they were seeing.

Lucey: And how many times have -- I know I've said it in presentations -- we've known this in prevention for a long time, that that prevention is not a cookie-cutter process. So you've just said it right there. So what's going to work at one campus is not necessarily going to work at another campus. And the messaging at that one is not going to work at the next one. So I mean I think that's a perfect example of what you just said there with that hashtag.

Smith: Yeah, and so like, one more example is that outside of Louisiana we will switch the word, anything that ends in "o" with the "e-a-u-x", so like "go" becomes from "g-o" to "g-e-a-u-x". And everybody in our state, if see that on messaging or marketing, it gets associated with LSU, Louisiana State University.

Other campuses, all of them, HBCUs and other non HBCUs would all probably revolt against marketing with the "e-a-u-x" spelling because that doesn't work for their campuses. So even within the state, being sure that you recognize the difference among your college populations.

And so for our coalition, we're always mindful that for our prevention coalition when we have our statewide summit, we bring in diverse speakers who speak to diverse topics because our student bodies are not the same on all of our campuses. We want to be sure that the staff and the students from those campuses get information that meets their need where they are.

Lucey: So let me ask you as a segue into the next formal question I have, what are the ways that you think that our field in prevention can work to increase diversity, equity, and inclusion when it comes to new professionals?

Smith: So one, I think back to you, I think it has to be intentional. I do not think it's going to happen by accident. I think that when our field national associations, when our colleges are looking at recruiting and where they're sending their job postings, they have to be intentional about that. They have to be absolutely intentional. 

So I know again Dr. Shawnte Elbert, myself and other black or people of color, in our group we are in a Black Student Affairs Professionals Group. And we always post, everybody posts their job postings in there. And it has over, I believe now, over 14,000 members, the Black Student Affairs Professionals. Everybody posts their jobs and they're trying to get them to a more diverse audience. And it's not just the DEI jobs that get posted. So it's the broad swath, intentionally targeting people of color. 

It cannot just be, oh, we send it to HR and they send it to these same five websites or publications that they've always sent it. It's reaching out to your groups on campus, your affinity groups, any groups for staff and faculty of color saying, hey, being more intentional. If you're on a campus, here, we have this job posting. Let's say it's a job in the geology department. Send it there. You never know who you'll get. But you have to be intentional about creating opportunities of the hiring process.

And then also I think it's mentorship, that we have to have some type of intentionality with mentorship. And I don't think that necessarily has to be a formal program, but we do have to have people, not just people of color but we have to have people who are willing to mentor other people, and not just mentor but sponsor, provide access to different spaces and resources.

I just want to say I will personally say Rich Lucey is a great sponsor and mentor. He has been phenomenal over the years. So I thank you for all the opportunities you've supported myself and several other black women I know in this space. And so, but it takes that type of intentional strategy of saying, here, come have a seat at my table. Here, join me on this panel. Here, join me in this conversation. But being intentional, and it absolutely will not happen by accident.

Lucey: Well, one, thank you. I appreciate that. I will say that, again full disclosure, sometimes the conversations are hard, and I'm even nervous sometimes to have the conversation. And what's your advice for that? Is it just, you know, accept the uncomfortableness and just dial in? Or what are your thoughts on that?

Smith: Actually yes, that would be my answer because if you're sitting across from a person of color, they already know that it's hard. The way that you're -- and they know that you're intentionally asking them to come in for that. And one, they recognize the intentionality. So I will personally speak. I recognize and I appreciate the intentionality of saying, no, we need to make sure that we're having diverse voices represented in the conversation. One, and it actually, I'm like, oh, this is a great person to work with. It makes me recommend other people and expand, that person who invited me, their access to other networks because this person has been intentional.

This person is trying with all their might to diversify our field to be sure that they're supporting new professionals, younger professionals with being sure that they're doing whatever they can within in their realm, their sphere of influence to make sure that opportunities are being broadcast to new professionals.

Lucey: And I started this conversation, this question about increasing DEI with new professionals, and I don't even know if we have a metric to measure this. And when I say are we doing better, I'm not even sure I know who the "we" is. But you know, because we are having the conversation I think more and more broadly, do you think we are at least doing a little bit better?

Or is it that what you said before, or at least being more intentional about having the conversation?

Smith: So I think we've gotten to the assessment piece. I don't know if we've gotten to the capacity piece [inaudible]. So I don't know if we've gotten there yet.

Lucey: So we're at awareness now.

Smith: We're at awareness now. We know. We're talking now. And so I don't know that the number has been tracked yet or who does that. I think probably the American College Health Association may have some data on like those who work in the counseling/health kind of space.

But I'm not sure that we've done a great job nationally kind of tracking that number to see where we're coming from and where we're going.

Lucey: Well, you know, again it does come down to self-reflection.

But I also love the fact that you just said; you again brought it right back to the Strategic Prevention Framework in saying, yeah, we may be at the assessment phase, or a lot of people would say, you know, if it's even [inaudible] the stages of change. We're at awareness, but are we at capacity yet? And then we haven't even thought about planning, implementation and evaluating how we're doing.

Smith: And when we talk about evaluation, we're going to call Peggy.

Lucey: Right, Peggy Glider is definitely going to be on the speed dial when we talk about that. I love having the conversation with you, and again I feel like, go back to while the conversation may seem uncomfortable at times, I'm never afraid to have the conversation. But I always enjoy having the conversation. I feel like I can be frank. I can be candid.

It feels safe when I talk to you and Shawnte and some others in the field. And I think that just comes with a level of trust and just openness to say, look, I'm here to learn. I'm here to just put myself out there, and I learn from you.

Smith: Thank you, Rich, likewise. The feeling is absolutely mutual.

Lucey: So as I wind up, it's a little bit of a variation on the fifth question I always ask the guests. And it's really more for the listeners. So what would you say to encourage the professionals who are working to diversify the drug misuse prevention space among college students as well as the students themselves? Because we know that they also listen to the podcast. What do you say to encourage them?

Smith: If I could leave you with one thing, it's be honest about where you are and what you need. Be honest about where you are in your learning on DEI initiatives and where you are in conversations on that. And then two, being honest about what you need. What do you need from people who do not look like you and people who look like you? What are the specific things that you need? If you need access to opportunities, say that. I need access to more opportunities. I need to be introduced to people who may be willing to mentor or sponsor me. I need these things. Don't be afraid to name what you need.

Lucey: I wrote that down as fast as I could because you know me with sound bites, and sometimes I will, I will borrow. I won't say "steal". Between you and Dave Clausson, I've got like a whole bunch of sound bites that I use. 

But so I love what you said about what you need because we know that that also is a struggle for people, for some people. They have a hard time articulating what it is they need. And my thought is so one, practice it by yourself. Nobody is around. Just jot it on paper. Say it out loud. Say it into your voice recorder on your phone. Just stream of consciousness what it is you need. 

And once you reach that comfort level, find the person you trust. It could be a partner. It could be a faculty member. It could be a fellow classmate or something. And then start practicing it there. I think it gets a little easier if you take those steps. Because I know for some people it really is a struggle to articulate. I think it's easy.

Not easy; let me rephrase that. I think it may be easier for people to identify where they are, where they're at as opposed to what they need. And I think it's that second part that needs a little bit of practice. They need to practice that.

Smith: And so how I've helped a couple people do that particular conversation, what do you need, because that is the part I've found that those people trip over is communicating their needs. My typical follow-up question to that is, what do you see people doing that you wish you had the opportunity to do?

And it becomes, oh, I wish I had the opportunity to present, to be on panels, to do "X, Y, Z". So people are like when they see the question phrased that way, it's still, what do you need? And so it's like, then I come back, if this is what you want to do, what do you need to help you achieve these goals? And so now it reframes the "what do you need" question, and then that usually gets people to form some answers, just a little bit of reframing.

Lucey: Well, as expected you are always a joy to have, whether it's doing the podcast, whether we're co-presenting together, we have some other opportunities coming up in the future. I know you're going to be working and providing some input on a resource DEA is working on, on really trying to build up cultural competence in the prevention space for colleges that we intend to launch in January. So we're looking forward. Your input is always so valuable. We really do appreciate it. And you're such a great guest to have on the podcast.

Smith: I appreciate it. I really enjoy working with you and DEA, especially campus drug prevention, any opportunity that I get.

Lucey: I know our listeners are going to have a lot of takeaways from this. Again the conversation may not always be easy, but it's one that needs to be had. And I'm just glad that I was able to have the conversation with you about this very important topic today. So again, Allison, thank you so much.

And to our listeners, we thank you for listening to this episode and all of our previous episodes of Prevention Profiles Take Five. And with that I'm going to say have a great day.